Burbling rivers, rustling forests, charming villagers? Not here! With Boss Fighters QR, Game of the Year designer duo Lukas Zach and Michael Palm are breaking new ground. The game remains cooperative but, unlike in the 2023 Game of the Year Dorfromantik – The Board Game, this time we are not working with or for the protagonists of the board game but – to put it mildly – against them. More specifically, our goal is nothing less than to see through the tactics of the nasty bosses, join forces, and skilfully use our individual abilities to defeat them together.
In this interview, the two designers tell us more about game development, the difficult balance between analogue gaming experiences and digital app controls, and how a game can be equally exciting and interesting for both families and experienced gamers.
Michael & Lukas, let’s start with a somewhat provocative question: After spending many years developing card games, some of which were very complex, did you want to take it easy and let software take care of all the administrative stuff?
Michael: “Yes, that’s true, we come from a complex background, when I think of our trading card games or The Dwarves. But recently we’ve also ventured into the family-friendly arena without electronics. Besides, it’s obvious when you have a family with children. And maybe it’s also because of our age.😉”
Lukas: “It also has something to do with the gaming market. There are fewer and fewer simple games that are also innovative. The combination of a very good game with only a few rules is a real challenge. If an app can then relieve players of administrative work, even better.”
Can you tell us what the Boss Fighters QR app does?
Michael: “First and foremost, the app controls the course of the round. It tells you which phase you are in. But it also brings surprises and twists. This is a typical feature of online boss battles, where players discover completely new sides to the boss when attacking. Our bosses are all unique and react dynamically to the moves made in the game. If I had to design this for a card game, it would be a huge rule book.”
Lukas: “The app brings that PC experience of ‘me/us against a boss’ to the tabletop. You don’t have to deal with tables and values at all, as is usually the case with complex boss battles. With Boss Fighters QR, we’ve packed everything that can inhibit the fun of the game into the app.”
Can the app do even more?
Lukas: “Sure! Even though the bosses aren’t in 3D, they react with visual effects and make sounds. For example, they growl when they get hit. It feels like you’re playing a card and getting an immediate reaction.”
Michael: “The app helps you keep track of your character. You combine the characteristics of your hero with a profession, so to speak.”
Lukas: “It also helps with what I would call “unravelling the bosses.” This ensures constant interaction throughout the game.”
What does all this mean for programming an app?
Lukas: “First of all, since Boss Fighters QR is a game for families and experienced players alike, it offers very clean handling. Specifically: Are the cards easy to scan? If this becomes too fiddly, casual players will quickly lose interest. But the crucial question is: What should the app do—and what shouldn’t it do?”
Michael: “Exactly. The app could have also tracked health points and poison markers, for example. But we realized that the feel of the game, playing cards, or placing markers is very important.”
Lukas: “Overall, it’s a very fine line. If the app does too much, people are quick to say, ‘I might as well just play on my PC.’”
Do you remember how you came up with the idea of making a boss battle game? Was there a specific trigger, or was this mechanic simply on your “wish list”?
Michael: “When we’re not working together on game ideas, Lukas works in the PC gaming industry. And that’s how he came up with this idea during a meeting. His experience in this field made the transition to a hybrid game much easier for us.”
Lukas: “And time was ripe for it. Today, it’s safe to assume that everyone has a cell phone that can easily run an app like Boss Fighters QR. That’s why I came up with the idea of combining modern technology and analogue board games in a boss battle. At the time, I didn’t think it would turn into a project that would span so many years.”
At this point, we should probably mention that Lukas works as a video game developer three days a week. That’s where boss fighting became big. Did that make it easier to design Boss Fighters QR?
Michael: “Yes, Lukas gave us an excellent start. He was able to approach the right people right away, such as programmer Florian Feith.”
Lukas: “Florian is not only a software programmer, but also a gamer and a father. This meant he could test the game at home with the intended target group. He got into it right away and not only implemented our wishes but also made innovative suggestions.”
For example?
Michael: “The bosses have armour to protect themselves from the players’ attacks. At one point, Florian suggested replacing the usual shields with little minions instead. This adds a whole new element and gives the gaming experience a new direction. Okay, that’s a bit of a spoiler, but we’re not revealing where the minions appear. But there’s so much more to Boss Fighters QR, there’s definitely still plenty to discover!”
Lukas: “But everyone, absolutely everyone, worked on it with great passion, including the illustrators. But above all Sebastian from the editorial team at Pegasus Spiele. Thanks to his mathematical background, he even programmed bosses.”
That sounds like a lot of work. How long did you work on the project?
Lukas: “A total of six years. We started with Boss Fighters QR even before Dorfromantik. And that was only possible with such a small, focused team. For a video game, we would certainly have employed a dozen people.”
Be honest: during such a long journey, were there moments when you doubted that the game would ever be released?
Lukas: “We never really had any doubts. We focused more on the next tasks, step by step.”
Michael: “The openness and willingness shown by Pegasus Spiele also demonstrated to us that there is interest in this type of game on the market.”
Did you know from the outset that the game would be app-based?
Michael: “We knew from the outset that Boss Fighters QR would need an app. Simple bosses can still be simulated using card decks and dice rolls, but later ones become so complex that it would no longer be a relaxed game for a game master at the table.”
Lukas: “During development, we naturally came up with a few ideas that would have required too much programming effort. Florian rightly brought us back down to earth. But who knows, maybe we’ll implement some of them in the future?”
Quick question: How did you actually come up with the combination of boss fights and cooperative play?
Michael: “We are both passionate role-players. The joint battle of the gaming group against opponents is a very common game design. And our approach was: a board game becomes even better when role-playing is added to it.”
Lukas: “We both also really enjoy playing cooperative games.”
You’ve been working as a duo for many years. How do you divide up the work?
Lukas: “In the past, we tried to work together on all projects. Today, we divide things up a little more. I’m more of a boss fighter, while Michael has devoted himself to Dorfromantik.😉”
Michael: “And fortunately, there is still some time between the two major projects to tinker with new ideas.”
When designing a game, the first question that arises right at the start is: What is the target audience? Easy or difficult, family or expert? How was it here?
Lukas: “When we started, we developed Boss Fighters QR as a game for core gamers. However, the app allows you to adjust the difficulty level as you wish, from family to expert.”
Michael: “So anyone who wants to can pick up a whole lot of complexity!”
Lukas: “I have to say that I’m out at the highest level, because it involves very complex mechanics! To succeed there, the players have to coordinate extremely well. Level 1, on the other hand, is an introductory level that forgives a lot of mistakes.”
Can you give some examples of different bosses?
Lukas: “The ‘Aether Dragon’ is a really tough nut to crack. It can fly, and—spoiler alert—behaves differently in the air than it does on the ground. To be able to compete with later bosses, you have to level up your hero—frequent gamers and role-players will know what this means: things are about to get complex!”
Michael: “Our nasty ‘Prince’, on the other hand, is completely different. Here, we turn the fairy tale upside down, so to speak. We can reveal that he turns into a huge ‘Monster Toad’.😉”
Listening to you, one gets the impression that you really like your bosses…
Michael: “These monsters are quite family-friendly. Even the illustrations are anything but evil characters. From my perspective as a game retailer, it was important to me that the boss’s appearance and the content were consistent.”
Lukas: “That’s why we deliberately chose not to focus on the app. The box shouldn’t say ‘AI-controlled’ as a selling point—a game is good if it’s good.”
Michael: “And such a beautiful Boss growl is truly international. For the Boss Fighters QR advertising clip, we were asked questions such as: Which smacking sound is the best?”
Lukas: “Apparently, even a boss does have a soul after all.😉”
Michael, as a game retailer, who would you particularly recommend Boss Fighters QR to?
Michael: “Everyone, of course. 😉 But to be more specific, I would recommend it to families who want a completely new gaming experience at the table, as well as to experienced gamers who are looking for a special challenge.”
